We talk new album 'Cowards' plus live shows and festival life.
Photo: Burak Çingi (L-R: Ollie Judge, Louis Borlase, Laurie Nankivell, Arthur Leadbetter, Anton Pearson) | Words: Lloyd Bolton
Among the most innovative and exciting bands to come out of the UK in the past decade, Squid burst out of the wider post-punk revival that fostered the rise of black midi and Black Country, New Road and the related Bristol scene that has fostered LICE, Scaler, Bingo Fury (and related projects) and Lynks. Since then, they have evolved a unique sound, defined by a Krautrock-inspired sensitivity to tone and groove, and manifested most powerfully at their hypnotic live shows. This year they released their third album, 'Cowards'. At End of the Road, we met up with the band to discuss the new album and the band's approach to live shows, as well as festival routines. 'Cowards' sizzles with a glassy modernist sheen over scorched lyrics exploring a variety of qualities to evil and complicity. As the band relate, they relished the challenge of representing these themes through a decidedly clean-cut music. While teasingly appearing to juxtapose this darkness, it evokes on a deeper level the insidiousness of antiseptic Western culture and the obfuscation of personal responsibility manifest in our society.
Speaking to us ahead of the band's Sunday evening slot were Louis Borlase (Guitar), Laurie Nankivell (Bass) and Arthur Leadbetter (Keys).
The first time I saw you was at End of the Road 2019. What are your memories of those shows?
Laurie Nankivell: We were quite exhausted… we'd done two shows in the last two days, the last one had been in Cornwall
Louis Borlase: Knee-Deep [Festival].
LN: And we'd had… we'd stayed up a bit late. But we'd also had very noisy neighbours…
LB: [Stage whisper] It was Sorry!
Arthur Leadbetter: And the thing is is that they weren't sorry!
Do you remember you [Laurie] broke a bass string? That was a pretty big moment.
LN: Maybe the first live bass string break by me.
Does that happen a lot!?
LN: Not very often.
AL: It's happened to you a few times…
LN: Three times. For nine years of touring I think that's pretty good going to be honest!
What would you say are the main differences between the band that played those early shows and Squid in 2025?
LB: I think there's a lot that's still exactly the same.
I think we were really surprised then that anyone came [in 2019]… it was the Big Top and it was very full and we were very humbled to be there doing it. But yeah, I don't know what's changed, maybe we've got more patience with one another? We've become a bit more willing to experiment on the live stage more, which is fun. But lots the same, I'd say.
AL: I think we've all got older, little bit more sensible, that's quite nice. But in general exactly the same.
LB: Different gear, same kids.
AL: Kind of just as chaotic though. You'd think that as you get older and as you get bigger audiences, more stuff, you'd get more professional. But we're still carting things around without cases… its just sometimes really chaotic. But that's kind of great, that's kind of how I like it.
Photo: Lloyd Bolton
On the theme of chaos, a lot has been made of the interludes between songs in your set. How much of that do you tend to plan? And what form does the planning take, if any?
LN: It varies, sometimes there's none at all, [but] we know at least what key goes well between two songs. I think improvisation feels very important to our set. And actually it can put you in a really nice headspace that does wonders for slightly more prepared tracks. I guess your head being in a space of pure creativity for a moment on stage, it's quite a relaxing thing to do. Stops you thinking about fucking up your bass line in the next track.
AL: I love it, I love getting to one of the bits where it just says 'Jam' on the setlist and then just being like, "Ooh what program am I gonna use?" and scrolling through and finding one. It's great fun. It is relaxing, it feels like a weight's been lifted off.
LN: He's choosing the big thumping bass bit.
AL: The Rave Cave program…
Your new album 'Cowards' came out earlier this year. What defines that group of tracks for you? Was there a central idea holding the project together at the writing phase, or perhaps a cohesion that grouped those tracks together?
LB: We started writing 'Cowards' with a view to making something that was a little bit less dense, and a bit more… we liked the idea of trying to make something that felt sonically quite pretty and a little bit less guttural.
When we first started talking thematically about making an album about evil, we were all sort of picturing these big doom metal kind of fuzz drones and stuff. But then we were like, it's actually quite nice to explore the idea of evil through something that is sonically quite nice sounding. The idea of not falling into the trope of "If it's about mean then it has to sound mean". That for us I think was a really nice turning point in the writing process, we wanted things to shimmer and be colourful. A lot of the music kind of started to come first… and because Ollie had these lyrical ideas, we were able to kind of subvert what he thought they were going to sound like into something that was a bit more pretty.
How do you make tracks sound pretty?
LN: [Laughing] it's a special touch.
LB: I think we were in a really nice room that looked beautiful, and we were working with a really nice team... it was very different to previous albums we've done where we've been rushed. We had a lot of time, we were commuting to the studio, it wasn't halfway through lockdown. So we were all breathing a bit more.
We had room to try out new instruments like the harpsichord – that was really key. And also writing for, like, micro choir. Rosa from Pozi was in there, Tony Njoku, Clarissa Connelly came in. And we were using voice and some baroque instrumentation to make something that felt, at times a little bit nursery rhyme-esque, and other times more like borrowing and being influenced by Kate Bush, Talk Talk and Mark Hollis' solo work, they were all pretty big inspirations. So nothing with too much gravitas and weight to it, I think that's the key thing.
Is there a political element to this idea of presenting evil in this more polished, veiled way?
LB: I think one thing that became quite exciting was thinking about powers and evil, it's not just one kind of idea that's dark and heavy but something that was more of a sliding scale within cowardice. It's this idea of apathy, and within apathy you have personal apathy, things that you feel like you're doing wrong, but also political and environmental apathy, and it's therefore cowardice.
It's a tricky one because we actually don't talk loads about the meaning of our music to each other until, sometimes we chat about it in interviews like this. So there's a lot of surprise and sometimes, like, misunderstood lyrics that sort of catch us out. Which I think is really nice because we don't put everything out in writing to each other and it leaves a kind of mystery that I think allows us to keep writing music that is exciting for all of us and full of surprises.
LN: And the lyrics stay purposefully a bit oblique, which means they're interpretable by the audience, which is an important part of songwriting. And it's funny that process is even transferred to other bandmates.
AL: Yeah, like, when we record the tracks themselves, we're often all sat in a room, and I love to be in there for the first few takes especially because you're sat there often listening to the final version for the first time. Because they're tweaked here and there, you know. So you're sat there with your headphones on, listening to your mate that you've known for years singing these things… I've always had a deep connection with what happens in that moment. And that stays with me, and I hope that that's what listeners get.
Photo: Lloyd Bolton
To take things back to a focus on festivals, what is each of your go-to festival food?
LB: Errrm, like the Shin Cup, but the Kimchi version is always quite a nice one, because it's quite spicy. If you wake up feeling a bit untoward it can help wash away your hangover with salt and MSG.
LN: Not all the time but the tuna wrap is quite a classic. Bit of mayo, tuna, kind of does everything you need for the morning. Maybe some avocado, some cheese in there, dare I say…
AL: I'm gonna continue the fish theme… I usually bring my cooker and, just fish and rice. So, like, tinned mackerel with some rice packets. Fry that up, add some chilli sauce in there, soo good. Often better than what you can buy at these stalls.
The problem with those rice packets, they're a lot for one person, not enough for two. Often find this with packets, why do they do that?
What is the most superfluous item each of you have brought this weekend?
LN: I brought a book I'm reading at the minute, and it's quite nice, you see old people get to the garden stage at like 9.30 in the morning and read. And I haven't managed to do that, but maybe I brought it because that's what I aspire to.
AL: Last time I came I came here for one night, set up my tent, didn't go in it once.
What happened to you!?
AL: Nothing, just had a really nice time. Set it up on the Sunday and just had a fun time with my friends and… ended up not needing it.
Ok one last question, do you have a band nemesis?
LB: Well, if it was in fact Sorry who kept us up all those years ago when we played our first End of the Road performance… I think it's only Anton that's annoyed because he was their neighbour.
AL: He hasn't let it go. It was about five years ago and he still brings it up.
LB: So if I see Louis or Asha later…
Burak Çingi
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